The fusion reaction has its own rules that the movie sets up and it follows those rules pretty well. You guys have pointed this out in other podcasts before and am suprised of how much a tear you guys go on about it.

Spiderman 1 also intos itself by saying: "this is a story about .." It might as well have said "once apon a time". It is clearly a fairy tale/fantasy genre.

There are three major parts of story telling IMO
Plot
Theme
Character

The main strength of this movie compared to ironman and others is its theme about the personal/emotional toll of being a superhero. The plot does a very good job of connecting most of the actions in the film to its theme.

This is a big problem i have with ironman. Ironman has a virtualy non existant theme. If it does have a theme it is about privatization of war and is very very impersonal with cardboard cutout villans (Doc ock is very human and a empathetic villian.).  Without strong themes all you have is a story with nothing to really say.

I really should have just typed stuff out while i re listened to the podcast. These miandering thoughs are my attempt to add to the discussion. sorry about the orginazation

Last edited by Twig24 (2011-01-25 15:34:27)

That is actually a very good point, albeit one that could have been made less aggressively

Peter Parker is a bit of a douchebag, he should have told Harry.

Fantasy my ass. They're running around midtown. If it's in Metropolis, you have more leeway, but the fact that the Nolanverse's Gotham is more realistic than Raimi's New York City doesn't help Spiderman's cause.

And yes, sure, the decision to set Marvel in real world settings was made decades before Raimi ever touched Spiderman, but that's the state of affairs, like it or not.

Ooh, this is awkward... I don't know how to say this, but this seems like the right moment. Michael, you're directly descended from notorious cannibal Klaus "Babyfood" Scott, who ate 17 babies and also raped them. Also, no one knows that but you and me.

Phew! I'm glad I got that off my chest. I hope this doesn't color our friendship. Hey, see you for pizza on Saturday!

It's not an absolute, but it is one factor that can either go towards your favor or against it.

It's one consideration stacked up with a million others that have to be considered in aggregate. And it's the filmmakers' responsibility to strike a balance that conveys a convincing believability to the audience.

And it's something I doubt Raimi considered at all, let alone considered with any success.

lol brian didn't like spider-man 2 lol

I think you guys were criticizing this movie out of context. You would never try to evaluate the princess bride this way.

The movie tries to tie in theme and character through the plot constantly. I understood the and recognized the world we were in immideately. All 3 of the Marvell studios releases dont even bother with this. Ironman 1& 2, the incredible hulk have virtually no theme and if they do the creators put almost no effort into tying the theme into the details of the movies. Thats why most people like this movie and think it succeeds.

I just brought up the IMDB stuff because the characters act like fantasy/fary tale characters in willow, star wars or the princess bride.

Hmmm.. good question.

sci fi fantasy - starwars spiderman most comic movies that involve supernatural elements.

horror fantasy - evil dead series

tolkeen fantasy - lotr, willow, dragonheart, stuff like that.

fantasy generally means taking place in some kind of alternate reality. At least that would be my best description.

So respond to this statement: Spider-Man 2 and Lord of the Rings are both fantasy, and thus the same kind of movie.

They are not because while Lord of the Rings takes place that never existed (Middle Earth), in a time that never existed (?), and with species that never existed (Orcs, Hobbits, Viggo), Spider Man 2 takes place here and now, with fantastical elements (super powers, wonky science) added to familiar settings (New York) and species (humans).

Right, the real heart of believability is human behavior. Do the characters behave in such a way that feels true?

The perfect comparison is the original and prequel Star Wars trilogies. Exact same fantastical settings and one grips you while the other bludgeons you.

You can get away with a lot if your characters act like human beings (even if their elves or mutants or aliens).