And, a fair question raised in the previous thread: who better? It's a serious question. We can acknowledge that Joss' perspective on women is still problematic, but just because he's not the end of the path doesn't mean he's not a step along it -- and is anyone further along that can serve as a role model?

I was gonna say Jim Cameron may be a "better" feminist, but he's sorta in the same camp as Joss in that he writes strong female characters of a certain type.  Although, Abyss is sorta the odd ball one in that regard.  I don't think many off us thought the Mary Elizabeth Mastrantonio character in that was young.  I always thought of her in her mid thirties in that movie.

I like the fact that Joss provides powerful female characters but he is certainly not a feminist by any means.
I always enjoy seeing strong women and their stories as evolving characters, but they certainly are not paragons of feminist virtue. I read a couple of other blogs and opinions of others, because the only female characters I know that Joss has written is in Firefly, in which a variety of female roles are portrayed. I think Zoe is probably the strongest, and battles that within herself between respecting her husband and her captain, plus the duty to both. However, despite her strong exterior, its obvious that she still relies on male figures, which was a point that I noted from another blog.

I honestly am looking forward to your paper, Allison, as well as your comments as to why you think Joss is not the feminist icon powerhouse

Well, fully swap all the genders in a classic romance-y movie. The Princess Bride, for instance.

Princess Bride reverse-spoilers to follow.

A young boy prince hits on the chick who feeds the horses. She's really cute. They flirt, eventually kiss. She dies.  He says "I will never love again."

Years later, he is taken hostage by a crew of evil lady-pirates, who have the numbers to overpower him, but he has the wit and resolve.

Later, after a crazy lady piratelord has overcome the lady-pirates in challenges of steel, brawn, and reasoning, she at last meets our hero, who tells her to go pound sand, and punches her down a ravine. She says "as it is with our previously established pithy in-joke," and collapses to the base of the mountain. He says "oh shit, the girl I loved!" and rolls down to her.

She leads him through a terrible swamp, after which they are separated by the forces acting on the whims of his evil ex-slash-sort-of-kind-of-current girlfriend. He spends a lot of time trying to convince his ex-girlfriend to let him be with his true better half, and she spends that time conspiring with her torture-prone evil henchman to soul-suck her to death.

I would have sorted out where I was going with this after typing up a first draft of the post, but right now, that actually sounds awesome. So I don't know what my point was going to be and I don't know how the rest of The Prince Bride plays out, but it sounds cool to me. Carry on.

I like the Prince Bride concept, especially the part where the prince says "I will never love again." It strikes me as a very powerful line that would drive the character through the film.

I love, love Fried Green Tomatoes at the Whistle Stop Cafe, and it's (mostly) totally irrelevant that the principal characters are female, because it's their friendship that's so heartwarming and wonderful to watch and everyone can relate to that.

So... anyway.. yes it's important not to ignore the genre. Otherwise we might as well complain that they're not enough Asian characters in films about the colonisation of America.

Probably one of the best ones that comes to mind is Ellie in Contact, not an action heroine, just a really smart competent scientist dedicated to the scientific method. But ya, that's extroardinarily rare (actually come to think of it, Jodie Foster has played a lot of really strong roles like this, see something like Panic Room).

In the action hero mold, another one I like to throw out there I've always been fond of is Long Kiss Goodnight. Geena Davis is smart, competent, basically gets to do her version of a James Bond or Jason Bourne movie. Sam Jackson consistently gets his ass kicked and has to get rescued by her. Still might be my favorite Shane Black script.

I agree to an extent that Joss writes all his female characters the same way, although I'd say that's not in a vacuum. Hollywood in general has really shifted towards having mid-20s protagonists who are action heroes. There's sadly no longer really much room for a Clint Eastwood or a Charles Bronson, so naturally the female versions are going to be in their 20s and ass-kicking heroines.