Re: #44 - Disney Buys Lucasfilm

fireproof78 wrote:

You make an interesting analogy and your point is well said.

Civil discourse on the internet? I'm shocked. Shocked I tell you.

fireproof78 wrote:

It may be that GL is no longer the Pope of Star Wars (insert random Space Pope joke here) but that does not change his view on canon, that to him, the movies and what he does are it, but the EU and other books are there and that's great, but they do not affect him.

I agree, but the question is whether we imbue his view with any special significance.

fireproof78 wrote:

In all honesty, if GL were writing the sequels to the OT Luke would not be married, the Emperor doesn't come back and much of what happens in many beloved books is simply going to be in books. That's not my words-it was from an interview GL did.

Again the issue is whether we think GL's view matters.

fireproof78 wrote:

So, while SW canon is subjective for the fans, the material used for movies is up to Lucasfilm. They are not bound by EU at all.

Well, what's at stake here is intellectual property laws. LF own the rights to the IP, and so have the ability to make more of it. Barring fan films and obscure jurisdictions that don't recognize US IP laws, they have a monopoly for as long as Disney can continue to buy Congress. That's not quite the same as the ability to decide what is Canon.

fireproof78 wrote:

To further your church analogy a little bit, while Protestants do not recognize the same canon as Catholics or the authority of the Pope, most Protestant denominations have a common thread of "sola Scriptura" scripture alone as their canon. There are disagreements about some traditions and other interpretations, but the authority  of canon is usually consistent.

If I may, I'm not sure that 'sola sciptura' refers to the idea of only scripture being canon, so much as the idea that scripture contains everything that you need to know for salvation. There are groups who subscribe to 'sola scripture' who have different scriptures.
Regardless, the issue is not so much whether they have different canons, but their view of how canon is defined. Is it defined by authority, or by individual conscience?

fireproof78 wrote:

So, I regard the OT and PT as "canon" with other things being up for interpretation and Lucasfilm being able to decide what ultimately is movie material.

Again the important question is not what you believe , so much as why you believe it. I presume you believe that the six are canon because GL says they are? Does that mean that whoever owns LF can decide to change that in the future, or does GL remain the Pope of Star Wars? If the Papacy follows the money, what if LF doesn't even recognize the concept of canon, or if they declare the Ewok Movie and the Christmas Special canon?

Last edited by TheGreg (2012-11-11 06:49:29)

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Re: #44 - Disney Buys Lucasfilm

TheGreg wrote:

Civil discourse on the internet? I'm shocked. Shocked I tell you.

Well, I try, but reserve the right to fly in to an ALL CAPS rage...just saying wink

TheGreg wrote:

Again the important question is not what you believe , so much as why you believe it. I presume you believe that the six are canon because GL says they are? Does that mean that whoever owns LF can decide to change that in the future, or does GL remain the Pope of Star Wars? If the Papacy follows the money, what if LF doesn't even recognize the concept of canon, or if they declare the Ewok Movie and the Christmas Special canon?

Well, there are many fans who just cried in terror at your suggestion big_smile
Canon is a sticky issue-I claim no special insight in what defines it other than published statements, which includes Lucas' idea of the EU being parallel, but not reflecting his intent with the stories i.e. Luke's marriage etc.
Since even published statements are generally inconsistent, my point of view is that whoever is in charge of LF makes the canon, that canon has its origin in a specific authority. "Sola scriptura" is the idea that Scripture alone is what is needed to know the path to salvation and God's word, without man made traditions, or priest interpretations of the scriptures to help the common masses (If you want an interesting argument about it read about the life of William Tyndale-not relevant to this discussion but interesting).
So, based upon the published quotes I've read, the authority was GL, now LF as GL steps aside. His view is of most interest to me so that's what I take for authority. This quote really cemented my own view:

"STARLOG:  The Star Wars Universe is so large and diverse.  Do you ever find yourself confused by the subsidiary material that's in the novels, comics, and other offshoots?

LUCAS:  I don't read that stuff.  I haven't read any of the novels.  I don't know anything about that world.  That's a different world than my world.  But I do try to keep it consistent.  The way I do it now is they have a Star Wars Encyclopedia.  So if I come up with a name or something else, I look it up and see if it has already been used.  When I said [other people] could make their own Star Wars stories, we decided that, like Star Trek, we would have two universes: My universe and then this other one.  They try to make their universe as consistent with mine as possible, but obviously they get enthusiastic and want to go off in other directions."

Obviously, Lucas can make up whatever he wants so take it for what it is worth.

If you want a full, in depth discussion (I warn you, this was all the legaleze and then some they could create from this topic) check out: http://www.canonwars.com/SWCanon2.html
Its overall conclusion is about as muddied as this topic will be as no one gave a crap (see Trey's comments in the original SW commentary) and Lucas was just making a movie. So, his vision changes and things go crazy and now its this monolithic universe that apparently needs rules. So, now the rules are fuzzy, but I personally give GL and LF the canon authority, based upon their own statements.

God loves you!

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Re: #44 - Disney Buys Lucasfilm

Is Starlog still around in any form? I was shocked and happily surprised to see Cinefantastique was still around, even if only as a series of podcasts.

I write stories! With words!
http://www.asstr.org/~Invid_Fan/

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Re: #44 - Disney Buys Lucasfilm

Fireproof -

I can respect that you believe in the apostolic nature of the Star Wars Papacy, the idea that Lucas ascends to the Holy See, passing the role of Pope on to whoever buys the franchise, but I find the idea repugnant.
Like Luther nailing his protest to the church door we need to reject this claim of authority, instead proposing that each of us has an unmediated relationship with the material, and can accept or reject whatever we like as canon. We need a Star Wars Reformation movement.

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Re: #44 - Disney Buys Lucasfilm

TheGreg wrote:

Fireproof -

I can respect that you believe in the apostolic nature of the Star Wars Papacy, the idea that Lucas ascends to the Holy See, passing the role of Pope on to whoever buys the franchise, but I find the idea repugnant.
Like Luther nailing his protest to the church door we need to reject this claim of authority, instead proposing that each of us has an unmediated relationship with the material, and can accept or reject whatever we like as canon. We need a Star Wars Reformation movement.

Perhaps you are right. I just don't want fans to be disappointed as they hope for Thrawn, Mara Jade or something else that is popular in EU. Those stories just are not binding to the powers that be. I mean, I guess if we nailed our demands to Disney's door, we might get some attention, just not the kind you might be wanting wink

So, if I am to read you right, you say that each fan must make up their own mind?

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Re: #44 - Disney Buys Lucasfilm

fireproof78 wrote:

So, if I am to read you right, you say that each fan must make up their own mind?

Make up their own mind?! Good lord man, we haven't had 16 years of Fox News just so we can go around making up our own minds!

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Re: #44 - Disney Buys Lucasfilm

fireproof78 wrote:

So, if I am to read you right, you say that each fan must make up their own mind?

Well, that's exactly what Luther was suggesting really. In the end there can be no Pope, commercial interests that conflicted with spiritual purity ultimately undermined Papal authority in Europe, leading Protestants to conclude that every fan, as you say, must make up their own mind.

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Re: #44 - Disney Buys Lucasfilm

Unless they make up their mind to stay Catholic, then it's forced conversion time smile

I write stories! With words!
http://www.asstr.org/~Invid_Fan/

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Re: #44 - Disney Buys Lucasfilm

Interesting insight on the deal

http://mobile.thewrap.com/thewrap/pm_10 … d=PLjYisfn

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Re: #44 - Disney Buys Lucasfilm

I could swear it was a big story back in the day that Lucas only gave Fox distribution rights to the prequels on the condition they surrendered ownership of the original film back to him/Lucasfilm.

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Re: #44 - Disney Buys Lucasfilm

It's described here

So honor the valiant who die 'neath your sword
But pity the warrior who slays all his foes...

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Re: #44 - Disney Buys Lucasfilm

Ahh, it's just speculation then. Well, I suppose we'll see how it pans out. Thanks for the link!

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Re: #44 - Disney Buys Lucasfilm

TheGreg wrote:
fireproof78 wrote:

So, if I am to read you right, you say that each fan must make up their own mind?

Well, that's exactly what Luther was suggesting really. In the end there can be no Pope, commercial interests that conflicted with spiritual purity ultimately undermined Papal authority in Europe, leading Protestants to conclude that every fan, as you say, must make up their own mind.

Alright, draft your 93 theses and have them nailed to my forum by morning wink

God loves you!

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Re: #44 - Disney Buys Lucasfilm

http://io9.com/5961646/someone-actually … pisode-vii

Some indications that 'Safety Not Guaranteed' director Colin Trevorrow might have to be moved into the "most likely" spot for Episode VII.

A quote from a podcast he did back in June:

"I can't speak with any specificity as to what the next thing will be. There are amazing opportunities that have arisen as a result of [Safety Not Guaranteed]. One of them, I will say, will probably create a good deal of ire against me on the Internet when people find out what it is. So, I just want to say in advance that I promise you, for all those who love the mythology that I will be tackling, trust that I love it as much as you do. And I will respect it, and hopefully make it not suck."

Then there's an additional quote from a Swedish Mag interview where he talks about his love of Star Wars and how it's basically a "mythology" or even a religion among fans. The question is whether the word "mythology" was used (which would create an apparent connection between the comments) or if that's a result of translation only.

Certainly not confirmation -- but probably the best "evidence" for any individual director who's been rumored so far...

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Re: #44 - Disney Buys Lucasfilm

Then again, he has also recently tweeted:  @colintrevorrow To clarify, there is another film we all love that I'm currently trying not to mess up. Odds I will direct Episode VII: 3720 to 1.

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Re: #44 - Disney Buys Lucasfilm

I bet he's doing the next Terminator movie.

"The Doctor is Submarining through our brains." --Teague

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Re: #44 - Disney Buys Lucasfilm

http://www.ign.com/articles/2012/11/20/ … f81000001f

That's the most exciting news for me so far. Michael Arndt's good and all, but come on...

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Re: #44 - Disney Buys Lucasfilm

C-Spin wrote:

http://www.ign.com/articles/2012/11/20/ … f81000001f

That's the most exciting news for me so far. Michael Arndt's good and all, but come on...

http://i.minus.com/i2T74Zu1VqlON.gif

Re: #44 - Disney Buys Lucasfilm

Simon Kinberg? of X-Men: the Last Stand, Jumper, and XXX: State of the Union?

http://www.zarban.com/pics/panicking-now.jpg

Warning: I'm probably rewriting this post as you read it.

Zarban's House of Commentaries

Re: #44 - Disney Buys Lucasfilm

Zarban wrote:

Simon Kinberg? of X-Men: the Last Stand, Jumper, and XXX: State of the Union?

http://www.zarban.com/pics/panicking-now.jpg

Hey, if Kasdan can help Lucas, I'm sure he can help Kinberg.

God loves you!

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Re: #44 - Disney Buys Lucasfilm

Did anyone suggest Neill Blomkamp for director yet? Because I really think he could pull it off.

"The Doctor is Submarining through our brains." --Teague

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Re: #44 - Disney Buys Lucasfilm

I could easily be proven wrong, but I think Ep7 needs someone who isn't going to Style all over it. I love filmmakers like Cuaron and Blomkamp but I feel like it'd be jarring. They need a good filmmaker who can make a movie with flair but isn't a style unto himself.

...Or herself. Duuuude. I'm gonna contradict what I just said a little bit and propose Kathryn Bigelow. If she walked it back from the shakycam look? Ooooooo.

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Re: #44 - Disney Buys Lucasfilm

I think Mike just took the 'flip-flop' record off Mitt Romney big_smile

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Re: #44 - Disney Buys Lucasfilm

I would love to see a series of animated films based on the various popular existing EU stories, imagine Shadows of the Empire or the Thrawn Trilogy fully animated with the voices of the actual actors?

Imagination will often carry us to worlds that never were. But without it we go nowhere. - Carl Sagan

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Re: #44 - Disney Buys Lucasfilm

Jimmy B wrote:

I think Mike just took the 'flip-flop' record off Barack Obama big_smile

Fixed  wink

God loves you!

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