Topic: Fast cutting or shaky camera operating, which do you prefer?

In recent years there have been a fair few instances, in my subjective opinion, of big-budget movies that have been almost visually unintelligible at times. The examples I can think of are the Bourne sequels, Quantum Of Solace, and Taken 2.

The 2 main causes of this to me is a combination of fast editing, and long lenses/shaky camerawork. Either of these things will generally work fine, fast cutting can be great if you have enough air in the footage to allow a better overview of what is happening. Likewise, shakycam can work well if we are allowed time to process each cut enough, since long lenses and shaky operating both reduce the amount of useful information we are given.

So, which aspect do you prefer, or dislike more? Personally I always hate fast cutting way more than anything else, when it is done wrong. It more than anything else often feels used to hide poor stuntwork or other things they couldn't be bothered to do well, or to infuse a sense of tension which does not exist natively in the situations or characters.

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Re: Fast cutting or shaky camera operating, which do you prefer?

Mostly hate both, though cutting is usually the bigger issue. The first time I remember this crap showing up in mainstream action was the original Bad Boys, and more noticeably in The Rock (especially that car chase), so in many ways I hold Michael Bay accountable for making it a trendy technique.

The issue isn't the technique in principal, it's use of it by incompetent directors.
Spielberg used shaky-cam to extraordinary effect in Saving Private Ryan, while still managing to give the audience a complete understanding of the geography of the battle sequences. Ditto for Katheryn Bigelow in the Hurt Locker.

But ya, this stuff seriously needs to go away for awhile. Just show me the fucking stunt, stop trying to put me "in" it.

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3 (edited by TechNoir 2013-02-14 13:14:51)

Re: Fast cutting or shaky camera operating, which do you prefer?

I just watched The Rock today. The car chase sequence almost only uses zoom lenses it seems. It is extremely annoying to fel so confined by the frame. Also I am currently watching The Bourne Supremacy, and almost 80% of shots so far uses +70mm focal lenghts it feels like. You know something is wrong when the original widescreen image feels like it is panned & scanned to a 4:3 image, and then re-cropped to 2:35.

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Re: Fast cutting or shaky camera operating, which do you prefer?

I love The Rock (the movie.....aaaaand the dude) but that car chase is ridiculously edited. A lot of action films these days (especially Bay's stuff) don't have long takes, you'd be lucky if a single take lasts longer than five seconds. It's not smart, it's not clever, if anything it's actually lazy. It's poor film-making.

Shaky cam doesn't really bother me but it does bore me. They need to give it a rest.

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Re: Fast cutting or shaky camera operating, which do you prefer?

Imagination will often carry us to worlds that never were. But without it we go nowhere. - Carl Sagan

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6 (edited by TechNoir 2013-02-14 15:56:04)

Re: Fast cutting or shaky camera operating, which do you prefer?

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Re: Fast cutting or shaky camera operating, which do you prefer?

There's a section of the Empire of Dreams documentary that discusses the editing, with a couple of quick scenes demonstrating what an earlier cut would have looked at. I also believe Rinzler's Making of Star Wars also discusses it.

Imagination will often carry us to worlds that never were. But without it we go nowhere. - Carl Sagan

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Re: Fast cutting or shaky camera operating, which do you prefer?

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Re: Fast cutting or shaky camera operating, which do you prefer?

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Re: Fast cutting or shaky camera operating, which do you prefer?

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Re: Fast cutting or shaky camera operating, which do you prefer?

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Re: Fast cutting or shaky camera operating, which do you prefer?

I stopped halfway through. This video managed to make me have an epileptic seizure and be bored at the same time.

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Re: Fast cutting or shaky camera operating, which do you prefer?

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Re: Fast cutting or shaky camera operating, which do you prefer?

not long to go now...

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Re: Fast cutting or shaky camera operating, which do you prefer?

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Re: Fast cutting or shaky camera operating, which do you prefer?

Ridley Scott mentions on the commentary for Gladiator that they took out frames during the opening battle to make it more visceral, some of the sword swings etc. are harder as a result, and it works quite well I think. But then they ruin it a few minutes later by doing that smearing rubbish.

I watched Blade last night and was surprised at well it held up - firstly, it has none of that grading crap we're forced to watch these days, and the action was fast paced but clear. The opening club scene is probably one of the best introductions for a character ever.

Imagination will often carry us to worlds that never were. But without it we go nowhere. - Carl Sagan

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17 (edited by fcw 2013-02-17 05:50:51)

Re: Fast cutting or shaky camera operating, which do you prefer?

Re: Fast cutting or shaky camera operating, which do you prefer?

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Re: Fast cutting or shaky camera operating, which do you prefer?

Imagination will often carry us to worlds that never were. But without it we go nowhere. - Carl Sagan

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Re: Fast cutting or shaky camera operating, which do you prefer?

Mm. Yeah I've noticed the LOTR Extended Blu-Ray re-grade. More stylistic, less real. Not too crazy though.

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Re: Fast cutting or shaky camera operating, which do you prefer?

Personally, I think the bottom pictures are way better.

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23 (edited by bullet3 2013-02-19 14:26:49)

Re: Fast cutting or shaky camera operating, which do you prefer?

I don't mind it just because all of Cameron's movies pretty much look that way, so if he wants to grade it in that direction to make it consistent, more power to him, it'd be different if he was doing that just to be trendy. Also, grading aside, it's visually a phenomenal blu-ray transfer, crazy detailed without losing the film grain. It looks amazing.

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Re: Fast cutting or shaky camera operating, which do you prefer?

Aliens was really poor to begin with I believe, whatever transfer they had was in quite bad shape. I would guess that the example with Ripley in the hive was intended to be cold blue in light. It looks practical. Some other example shots I've seen were a huge improvement over older versions. However comparing Newt before/after, my god the new grade looks shitty. Her hair looks like she has been in a chlorine swimming pool for a month. That definitely does not seem like restoration to me. The before picture looks neutral, the new grade looks, just bleh. Would I have given it thought if I hadn't seen the comparison? Probably not.

The Star Wars examples are horrible aswell. "I love film because it has such wonderful dynamic range and smoothness. Let's get a great DP to shoot it so the exposure and balance is just right. Also, can you completely negate all that by dropping shadow detail into an abyss of 0, 0, 0? Lovely."

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Re: Fast cutting or shaky camera operating, which do you prefer?

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