I am, but I wanted to throw the idea up for debate. See what this rather large collective of filmmakers has to say on the subject.

Last edited by BigDamnArtist (2012-02-22 04:04:00)

Yeah, well that's my point. That's the question you ask a Spine style movie, and the only answer I can give to that is "To watch this character grow and change." And I'm not sure if that's really worth anything.

And did you know what I meant, yeah, so fuck you.

Last edited by BigDamnArtist (2012-02-22 04:11:35)

I see what you did there, Mr. Double Shot.

You mentioned Kubrickian stuff, which a lot of times the answer is a simple, "To make you feel x" where x could be hopeless/frustrated/ashamed/woeful, etc. If that's what you are going for, then cool. A fine reason for a piece of work.

There was a recent episode of Scriptnotes where they discussed the implications and phrase "Central Dramatic Arguement".

http://johnaugust.com/2012/the-happy-funtime-smile-hour

They mention a thread at some screenwriting forum that went on forever concerning the topic that Craig, a host, was involved in, which starts off as relevant by tangent and evolves to relevancy:

http://messageboard.donedealpro.com/boa … hp?t=65889

But if this is stuff you have an acute interest in, the best starting place I can recommend is Aristotle's Poetics. It's fuuuuuuulllllllllllllllllllllll of this shit.

http://classics.mit.edu/Aristotle/poetics.html

Regarding "literally", figured as a writer you would be interested in not fooling with words. 

But then I won't get the pot of gold from the super famous movie guy, cause obviously being an asshole is the only way to actually achieve anything.

to fill out and be less of a jerk, the life of the guy that wanders in isn't obvious or actual. you can meet people like this in real life in LA. From any perspective, the point of the narrative is to chill the fuck out and be a little more kind to everyone, no matter who you are.

This I get, I misread your first statement as being about the same character, not 2 different descriptions of 2 separate characters.

1: The only reason we even know she's an actress is that he guesses it and she never actually confirms it, he stops her before then. And the only other hint of it we get is her little funny voice she does before he enters. But seriously, my kid sister does that and she's studying to be a librarian, so it's not exactly a huge clue in.
2:Before that all she does is let the guy use the bathroom and sit down because that's what her character would do anyway(She didn't know he was /Meridian/ at the time.). Granted when she does find out she goes into full suck up mode, but by that point he's already made up his mind, and she didn't have to do anything.

"Should" being the keyword. She discovers the twist, walks out the door and leaves a dead body in the diner, possibly mentally scarring her co worker for a good long time, puts on the sunglasses like she's already a movie star, waits for the scream, smiles, and walks away with a sarcastic comment. That's not a kinder person, that's a psychopath.

EDIT: I'm honestly not trying to be a dick, I just don't see it, and am trying really really hard to.

Last edited by BigDamnArtist (2012-02-22 17:04:58)

Well, it sure was interesting for me to stumble on THIS thread... I suppose I could just tell you what we were going for with Double Shot, but that'd be cheating. 

On the original topic, I don't think it's required for short films or short stories to have characters arcs or even plots.  They CAN, of course - but a short movie/story could just be about expressing an idea, or even just telling a joke, and get away with it.  Mostly because it's, well, short.   

But if a novel/feature film goes on too long without an interesting character or understandable plot for the audience to follow, the "why are you telling me this?" question comes into play.  "Geez, it's been an hour and I still don't know what the hell this is ABOUT!"   

Which isn't to say that it can't be DONE, and Tree of Life is a recent example.   It's mostly a series of images, and they're very pretty images, and I have no idea what any of it meant.  But it got a Best Picture nomination, so clearly there are folks who liked it just fine.

So if you have an idea then there's no harm in following it to see where it leads.   Just be aware that it may lead absolutely nowhere and if so, you put it in the trunk with all the other stuff that went nowhere.   On the other hand, it might work.  Or it might NOT work, but once you've gotten it all down you'll see a way to make it work.    Just gotta try it and see.

Trey Stokes. A man for the people, and a man for the person.

...

I dunno, it made sense a second ago.