Re: #45 - Unpopular Opinions

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202 (edited by redxavier 2012-11-29 02:19:23)

Re: #45 - Unpopular Opinions

Imagination will often carry us to worlds that never were. But without it we go nowhere. - Carl Sagan

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203 (edited by Hansen 2012-11-29 05:43:13)

Re: #45 - Unpopular Opinions

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Re: #45 - Unpopular Opinions

Remembering Lost just makes me angry. If I ever watch it again, I'll end it when they open that hatch and just assume they unleashed the smoke monster that then killed them all. That's a better ending to anything they could have come up with and at least I won't have to suffer through inane plots, stupid characters who never talk to each other, pointless literature and pop culture references thrown in to make the audience feel clever, and a thousand and one further mysteries thrown in just to keep viewers coming back every week.

With regards to your point above Hansen regarding having a detailed story plan being overrated - I can't say I agree, especially if your story relies on a big mystery or central mythology. Of the 4 shows I'm aware of that have such a mystery at their heart that I've seen, all have failed to deliver on those expectations generated when they began it - X-Files, ALIAS, Lost, and BSG - and we know all of them didn't actually have an answer in place before they started down that road. Furthermore, another initially successful TV show, Heroes, then went completely off the rails because the subsequent seasons, which they hadn't planned for at all, were rushed into production. The record isn't good.

The 'making it up as you go along' can only work if you're really fucking good at writing and/or you know your material really well. The most successful multi-arc series of them, Babylon 5, is masterful in how well connected all the bits are - season 1 is a text-book example of how to lay the groundwork and every season expands and extends beautifully. But not all of it was set in stone, and JMS routinely had to negotiate ways of getting through major obstacles such as actors leaving the show. But then... that was his skill and planning as well, he had written 'trap doors' for all of his characters which allowed him alternative stories should they leave.

Imagination will often carry us to worlds that never were. But without it we go nowhere. - Carl Sagan

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206 (edited by Hansen 2012-11-29 11:16:34)

Re: #45 - Unpopular Opinions

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209

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I can say with authority based on talking with someone who was on a conference call with ABC execs during that time that up until season 6, the island was supposed to be something very very different than what it was ultimately revealed to be.

Eddie Doty

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"The Doctor is Submarining through our brains." --Teague

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211

Re: #45 - Unpopular Opinions

Eddie Doty

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212 (edited by Hansen 2012-11-29 14:33:19)

Re: #45 - Unpopular Opinions

See, I've heard that before, but I just don't see it. Obviously, if there was any plan, I don't know what it was or wasn't, but I can't see how you make that fit with anything that came before it and not have it be a complete out of left field thing.

Funny thing: Damon Lindelof did specifically say in several interviews that there weren't going to be an alien/spaceship ending. Which doesn't actually mean anything because they lied and/or changed their mind all the time.

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213

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Long version: 

There was a conference call with the creators of a show that was in development and set to air on ABC.  I won't reveal names, so let's clear that up right now.  This show had elemnts to it that were in the vein of science fiction and had an  overall mythology that ABC wanted to get in on early.  During the part of the discussion as to the source of this show's shenanigans, an ABC exec (again, no names) was heard by a few people to have said something along the lines of "The only thing it can't be is alien, because Lost's island is going to turn out to be from space."

Eddie Doty

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Re: #45 - Unpopular Opinions

I've still never watched an entire episode of Lost, and nothing I read about it makes me want to change that.

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215

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Oh, there's plenty of good there.  Great performances, good stories, amazing score, and lots of beauty shots of my old home.  The frusration with Lost is largely that it got key things wrong, not that it didn't do enough right.

Eddie Doty

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216 (edited by Hansen 2012-11-29 14:50:02)

Re: #45 - Unpopular Opinions

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Now THAT would have been an ending that fans hated. Say what you will about the current ending, but at least it fits into the overall tone and mythology of the show.

"The Doctor is Submarining through our brains." --Teague

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I dunno, there was a room full of gears or some shit. Like I said, I didn't watch the show.

And just because they retconned an answer doesn't mean that was the answer they had in mind when they started. Have you learned nothing from DIF?!

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Re: #45 - Unpopular Opinions

Heh. I know they made shit up as they went. I know you don't care, Mike, but-

The Island was powered by, essentially, electromagnetic energy underground. This energy, when utilised properly could send people off the Island. and also travel in time. The gears were built to control this and the polar bears were bred on the island to push the gears.  There was a fuck up with the energy when Locke left and that is when the time slipping happened. That is explained on the show (again, making it up as they went along) and I'm not explaining it very well. But I tried big_smile

I'm not saying they didn't answer things, there are a couple of things unresolved that pisses me off but that I have a feeling that video is made by folk who are just annoyed the show didn't go the way they wanted.

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Re: #45 - Unpopular Opinions

I couldn't be bothered with Lost past season 1. Perfect example of a great setup with no-where to go and no plan how to get there.

BSG, for all it's faults towards the end, did a much better job of making it's overall mythology feel cohesive despite making shit up as they went. I know people really dislike some of the choices in the finale, but those elements are introduced and referenced as early as half-way into season 1, and don't feel as much like left-field wtf moments to me.

I still say the more planning the better, this is one reason Game of Thrones has been so successful so far, they have a multi-year lead on where the story is going and are able to see what works and doesn't work and craft their story arcs around that.

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Re: #45 - Unpopular Opinions

It must be easier for Game Of Thrones, though, having the books to work from.  Most TV shows don't plan anything too far in advance because ideas change all the time. There were many ideas that the makers of Lost had that they had to change for certain reasons such as their child actor growing up 'too fast', actors not wanting to commit to moving to Hawaii etc. In fact, they had a long term plan for one particular character, Mr Eko, who first appeared in season 2. He was to be part of the whole good vs evil nonsense in the final season but the actor wanted to leave and they killed him off in season 3.

And for the record, the finale of Lost made perfect sense to me and works as a finale for that show. It was the rest of the last season that was a bit shit. The show has some excellent moments and excellent episodes of drama and action. The finales for seasons 3 and 4 are amazing in my opinion with great twists and turns and 'wtf' moments. It was just ruined by season six.

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